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Post by Mark on Nov 21, 2007 14:09:02 GMT 1
Anybody know what shape the bilge keel is. The instructions appear to have it as a none specific triangle shape. Some plans from the Anatomy Book show it as a right angle triangle cross section (if I'm reading the plans right). Most modern ships just have a flat plate, with an nose on it (bit like a length of angle bar with one very long leg and one very short one. However, the Bismarck isn't exactly a modern ship.
Any thoughts ?
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Post by eric on Nov 21, 2007 15:27:55 GMT 1
I've got the Bismack Anatomy book, AND the Hood Anatomy book (infinatly better book) and the Hood also shows a clear triangle on her bilge keel. My 1/350 model of Tirpitz has the same right angle triangle as you describe, with the longest surface facing UP and the shorter one DOWN.
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Post by Mark on Nov 21, 2007 23:49:18 GMT 1
Thanks Eric - seems that A right angled triangle it is then.
PS. Life of Brian
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Post by chris on Nov 22, 2007 10:29:39 GMT 1
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Post by daveb on Nov 22, 2007 12:23:28 GMT 1
I'm not at this point as yet (bilge keel) but I thought I'd drop this idea in now incase anyone wanted to adopt this for their own build.... I'm going to make my bilge keels out of plastic not wood. I feel that these delicate strips could be prone to damage (especially for the R/C users) due to repeated handling (oooer). I'm going to obtain some plastic sheet the same thickness as the amati parts, then draw the B/C's onto the card so that the curve is near the outer edge. Cut out the curved edge only from the plastic which means you can then shape it while holding the plastic card securely. You can then carefully cut off the whole B/C from the sheet with only minor cleaning work left to do. The part can then be glued to the hull with waterproof epoxy or the like with the addition of some pins for a more secure fit. The additional advantage of the plastic is that the wood grain of the plywood amati part could end up showing through the finish? It's only an idea and obviously a bit more work than using the amati pre-cut parts but I think long term could prove effective. Thoughts?? PS. I'm going into town now as Woderick is due to be released today!!!
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Post by swanrail on Nov 22, 2007 22:37:58 GMT 1
Like DaveB I was a bit concerned about how fragile the bilge strips could be. Like the rest of you, I found that the originals were triangular, but the "sharp" end would then be a weak spot and liable to damage when hoisted in and out of the water (might also be very uncomfortable to hold) so I have decided to cheat and merely round off the lower edge. Might not be kosha, but I doubt if it will be all that noticeable, as there will be plenty of other distractions to pull the eyes elsewhere!
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Post by Mark on Nov 22, 2007 23:46:15 GMT 1
Good idea from Dave. The bilge keel is 4mm thick. Getting some plastic card that thick may be difficult, but it could be a fairly easy solution if you can. I'm going to use the ply and soak the tip of the triangle with superglue to strengthen it. However, in a similar vein to Don I'm not going to bring it to a very sharp point.
PS Jaws ??
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Post by paulhbell on Nov 23, 2007 0:54:39 GMT 1
I agree with Dave about making the bilge keels out of plastic. I've made Radio controlled boats with wood or balsa and they are a mess after a few sailings. They are also hard to keep on the hull, very easy to get knocked off either in the water or out of it.
On the last boat I made, the bilge keel were fairly straight, so I made them out of aluminium. Drilled and tapped the edge (3mm), so that they could be held on to the hull. No need to worry about screwing through the hull (and water getting in) as the bilge keel is sealed to the hull. This has worked for 6/7 years, has never fallen off and never let water in.
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Post by poulw on Nov 23, 2007 9:47:21 GMT 1
I made the bilge keels for my Richelieu from hardwood (Tasmanian Oak) because of exactly the same concerns as described in this thread.
For that reason my bilge keels are also joined 10mm into each frame they cover.
I trimmed the hardwood down to 3.5mm thickness with a planer and bend it into the required lengthwise s-shape - a nightmare until I gave the good old steam iron a go - and finally shaped the triangular edge.
My choice of hardwood over plastic was because of the kind of plastics, at least the ones I know about, which can be relatively easy shaped and profiled are also too easily damaged on the edges. Just try to press a nail adainst the edge of a styrene sheet (which is high impact plastic).
I don't know what kind of material is supplied from Hachette for the bilge keel, but I totally agree that it has to be very hard and able to withstand rough handling.
Poul
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Post by eric on Nov 23, 2007 11:19:50 GMT 1
Jaws!! give the man a cigar!!
The bilge keel is a worry, but I like the idea of streanghtening it with superglue. To be realistic, it doesn't matter what the bilge keel is made of really, the biggest bug-bear will be scratched and chipped paint work, I think.
We will all be handling our ships with as much care as a new born baby......yes?
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Post by paulhbell on Nov 23, 2007 12:16:05 GMT 1
Eric your not wrong there, at nearly £1000 and nearly 3 years to build. Mine will be bubble rapped and sealed in a wood packing crate, with motion and impact sensors. Or is that going over board.
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Post by eric on Nov 23, 2007 13:50:12 GMT 1
well, only a little perhaps....
In my house, they all know NOT to touch Bismarck, even the snotty teanager knows better!!
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Post by popeye on Jan 5, 2008 4:43:26 GMT 1
I have just finished making and fitting the bilge keels. I made mine from 4mm thick hard PVC plastic sheet, which I keep for general modelling use. I used the wooden keels, as supplied, as a template but made my keels a bit wider (at about 12mm, compared to the supplied item at about 8mm). This enabled me to drill 1.5mm holes to a resonable depth that I then tapped out with an M2.5 thread to take three M2.5 (stainless steel) securing screws to fix the keels to the hull. I will araldite the keels on to the hull as well at a later date, to provide a watertight seal and strengthen the joint, however, with the keels screwed onto the hull they are very firm and strong. Having shaped the keels I then put them in boiling water for about 10 to 15 seconds to soften them so that I could shape them to fit into the cutout and properly fit the hull curvature. I held them in place as the plastic cooled and set hard again. You can see pictures of the keels and there fixings at: They are in the set titled "Bismarck at 3 January 08", together with photos showing the complated second layer made with 1m long mahogany strips (to provide a stong finished hull, although I will also be coating the hull with resin and a thin fibreglass sheet).
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Post by popeye on Jan 5, 2008 4:48:30 GMT 1
Try again for the images
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Post by popeye on Jan 5, 2008 4:50:16 GMT 1
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