|
Post by swordfish on Mar 29, 2008 15:36:03 GMT 1
Sorry if this has already been discussed, but my deck sits on top of the first layer of hull planking. I assumed that the second layer of planking would then cover the first layer and then continue up to cover the edge of the deck and form the gunwale which in all the photos I have seen of the real ship appears to extend about 6 or 8 inches (approx 0.8 - 1.0 mm in 1:200 scale) above the deck. Looking at the build instructions and photos the second layer of planking appears to finish well below the deck and appears to be representing the heavy armour layer fitted below the citadel armour. What's more the instructions then go on to show the hull painted as if the hull construction is complete. In all the pictures of the finished model that Hachette published the deck does not appear to be perched on top of the hull so how are they intending to cover this area and represent the gunwales? If more parts are to be added why paint the hull at this stage as the paint will need to be stripped back as glue does not stick to paint!
|
|
|
Post by eric on Mar 29, 2008 17:17:11 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish, soory to say, but if you follow the build instructions you end up with the deck sitting on top of the hull, NOT in it!
Many of us have ignored the instructions and continued the hull planking up above the deck hight, this required 1mm or so to be sanded off the edge of the deck so it would sit insde snugly, but it is worth the extra work as the ship looks so much better, check out Dons work on this in his section (altough he has carried on much further and planked his deck with individual planks, I shall not) and have a look at my diary, I think it also shows the planking extended up.
I have undercoated my hull, but have not top coated it, because as you say, paint does not stick to it and as there are yet more parts to be glued on the hull, it seems a bit premature to be final painting it. I can sand down the undercoat to bond on the last parts when we get them, then respay.
Hope this helps. Eric.
|
|
|
Post by david on Mar 29, 2008 18:22:29 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish, Your posting echoes the frustration a lot of us have felt regarding the gunwales and the half-finished state of the hull. It would appear that Hachette have no plans to model the gunwales at all, and even if you wanted to do the build as per Hachette's arrangement, the photos are not clear enough to be of much help. Some time ago Markus inspired everyone to depart from the scheduled build; how much detail you want to put on after that is a matter of personal taste. Personally, I wanted to go the whole hog putting in as much detail as the model would bear, and it seems that I'm in company with a one or two of our Aussies friends. You might want to check out my efforts in 'Modifications and Corrections - Gunnl's and Gutters', and my diary. David
|
|
|
Post by swordfish on Mar 30, 2008 2:12:20 GMT 1
Thanks for your comments, I had guessed that this might be the case. I must say that considering this and the deck planking issues, it seems that Hachette have been less than honest in their advertising. As the cost of the basic build is going to be in excess of £700 (which is almost twice the price of other comparable warship kits) I would have expected to be supplied with the components and instructions to have an accurate, true to scale model at the end of the build. Unfortunately I am not a hugely experienced ship modeller and don't think that I possess the skills to make major alterations to the design of the model. I think Hachette are guilty of sharp practice and misrepresentation - I quote from their website; "the finished model is faithful to the original and features intricate details". I wonder what Trading Standards would say to this as without modifying the construction the model can never look as per the pictures used in the advertisements. At the very least Hachette should have warned subscribers that considerable extra cost, skill and experience would be required to create an accurate model as depicted in the advertising. I am now worried about how many other similar issues will come to light as the build progresses and wonder if it would be better to cut my losses (I have spent about £250 so far) and cancel the subscription before I waste any more money on this project.
|
|
|
Post by afkmatrix on Mar 30, 2008 2:53:22 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish,
I too am a first time builder and have never ever tried something like this before, but if you have some common knowledge, ask a lot of questions on this forum you can succeed in this build. I have done several of the modifications, namely the foredeck mod and the extension of planking to cover the deck. To be honest it isn't that hard as the guys on here are awesome and will try and help you as much as possible.
As to the cost etc I would definitely agree that Hachette should have given a big warning in the first issue that this build would need extra things bought for it and this would seriously increase the cost of the build. As it is in my mind I want to start building other model boats and see this build as my step by step introduction. It has cost me a lot in extras but then I started completely from scratch and had to buy pretty much everything. So in my future builds it should cost less and I will have a lot more knowledge of building boats.
I don't know what your situation is, but if money is tight you may want to cut your losses as you'll only spend more on it. But if you want to gain knowledge and experience in boat building so you can build other models I believe it is worth it.
|
|
|
Post by eric on Mar 30, 2008 8:11:56 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish, I understand where you are coming from, you could easily go silly on the money side....but many of these mods cost no money at all, you just use bits left over from the build.
The hull extention is not difficult, I myself have never made a wooden ship before, so am also a total begginer but found it quite easy, I simply glued on an extra line of planks on top of the ones on, held in place with clamps and pins, right back to the stern (with my model I found I could glue on on top of the aft porthole strips and it needed no extra trimming) then a cut plank steamed and curved round the stern.
At the fixed deck part forward it was a little trickier, but still not hard, I cut a plank right down the middle and simply glued it on top of the deck at the edge, curving round the armoured kink right up to the anchor socket, then a small part forward of the anchors.
The deck needed sanding down all long its length, but patience, sand and test, sand and test, and finally the deck dropped into the hull (for heavens sakes, make sure you have a screw in the deck sticking up you can pull on to lift it back up!)
Such things can seem like a huge mountain at first, but really can be done!
|
|
|
Post by Baz on Mar 30, 2008 10:17:09 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish, It is sad to hear you are so disheartened in the project. From what I have received to date and what I have seen on the German site update, I am of the opinion this is a very very good model. As with all kits and partworks there are compromises, depending I suggest partly on the manufacturers final product dollar value instructions to the initial model maker and then his interpretations to best fit the guidelines under which he must construct the prototype. This means you can't please all the people all the time. This is where the imagination of the modeler can go wild with alterations and improvements...............all be it at the peril of producing an end product suitable to light the fire on a cold winters morning. I love modeling of all types, sizes and construction materials I am not new to either kits or scratch building, but this is my first attempt at fiddly brass bits (photo-etched parts). Following David's and others lead, I intend to play around with the model to suit my preferences of attention to detail. Being a part works model I too am frustrated at the inconsistency of logical build, but I am a patient person. I intend to post my work on the build section soon, but will wait until about part 42, which will allow me to finish the second planking. (10 weeks to go) I intend to incorporate gunwales and citadel Armour. How Don't know for sure yet, but it will not be a problem and I will post pictures of my construction method, but it will include double planking the entire hull. As for extras, I have scratch built a model using the following - my brother in law's bench saw with a sharp blade to create 4x1mm planks. Admittedly there was more sawdust than planks. - a very sharp break-off knife - long nose pliers from the workshop -VERY HANDY BUT NOT ESSENTIAL - old dental tools and used drilling bits from my friendly dentist. - good quality long nosed tweezers - mustn't forget a big mother electric drill - a hammer to hit myself on the head with when frustration sets in -map pins to hold all bits of wood in place - a useless soldering iron - and last of all - patience. Doesn't cost too much at all. Take a look at Swanrail and his mods. Check Davids mods Read some of Afk's enthusiastic comments across the forum........ It goes on and on ..........oh, take a look at my - planning ahead in oz. Please persevere, I'm sure your patience will be rewarded. We are all here to help Bazza
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 10:29:41 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by swanrail on Mar 30, 2008 12:35:44 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish, I cerainly would not give up now. Please attack the model as something you want and will be happy with as a final result. There are a lot of Bismarcks out there including some professionnally built and sold which have even bigger errors than Hachette!!! Re the deck, I would not worry about it, certainly it looks better with our mods, but not critical. In any case as Eric says, the cost of the mod is virtually nil. The other mods, such as some of mine, are nice to have but not essential. What Hachete have given us are very good instructions not normal with kits, and if followed carefully more than adequate. The side extension in my case is now fluch to the deck when fitted. The real ship went a little above this to form the scuppers, as David has done, but to the correct scale, this is only 0.2mm, and I fully agree with Hachette that this is not worth doing. I have planked my decks, but in most cases the ones supplied with Hachette will be more than adequate. Paint and glue? yes cost extra but they do on all models, and in the case of paint, many of my models used up gash paint left over from other jobs - not spray but ordingary matt and gloss!!!! and with careful brushwork looks just as good. This build is very very slow, so plenty of time to save up for the goodies, such as motors, etc (often cheaper from model shops and e-bay), I look upon the cost as being less per week than my wife spends on cigarettes, and even about the same as 2 pints!!! (and what is left after the one evening!!!)) p.s. and for free you also get us lot, for better or worse! is that not worth the subscrition alone?
|
|
|
Post by Baz on Mar 30, 2008 13:05:16 GMT 1
Oh and Swordfish Us modelers have it tough too...... Winter is fast approaching the deep southern land. Don't get the Canberra chills ( penguin territory.....almost), but it still gets down to 0c here at times, and I've been shipped to the shed to continue my build............family feud. Here is my humble workstation. My only extravagance has been to buy a Dremel recently as my pulley driven dentist drill finally gave up the ghost. details of tools and equipment..........pretty rudimentary really, but all I need. Baz..................
|
|
|
Post by Achtung!! on Mar 30, 2008 13:18:29 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish, dont give up on your build, I stopped for a bit (im about 10 issues behind most people on here) but im getting back into it somewhat now - with renewed vigour! And yes it is a bit fiddly but keep going. And where as I cant do all of the mods I am doing a fiar few and Markus will getting my order for a two model motor set up in the next two weeks.
|
|
|
Post by david on Mar 30, 2008 22:28:14 GMT 1
A more serious thought Swordfish if you did give up your model, (please don't!), .....where else other than this site are you going to see such varied and glorious post-retro designer shed interiors, quirky videos and not so designer woolly pullies! Stay with us if only for the zoological interest! David
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2008 23:40:20 GMT 1
rofl @ David and the not so designer woolly pullies!
|
|
|
Post by Mark on Mar 30, 2008 23:41:37 GMT 1
Hi Swordfish. I guess it come down to whether you think you can make a model you're happy with. I don't think that the perfect model has ever been built, and to this day there are arguments about some of the details ont he Bismarck, such as the colour of the tops of the main turrets.
One thing you can be sure of though. Plenty of people here will help you with any problems.
|
|
|
Post by Baz on Mar 31, 2008 9:33:10 GMT 1
I beg to differ Mark......................... Sophie Loren has been perfectly built..... in my eyes........ Still looks a picture today.......................and born in 1934 .........Impossible
|
|